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: Granted, this is a much different issue here in the states, but the issue is still something we will deal with more in the coming years. I think that eventually the question has to come down to this, how would these Christian families react if we started teaching children all the various creationist theories? What if we brought in the Muslim creation story, taught the Native American creation story, the Buddhist, the Shintoist, and on and on down the line?

To me this isn't so much about teaching creationism as it is an attempt by Christian fundamentalists (yep, I'm gonna go there) to bring only their view alongside the theory of evolution (which I personally loathe to see called Darwinism). What about all the others?

@michaelfidler, @homosuperior, @thekookfringecom, @jasongoldberg, @thomaspower and anyone else I'm leaving out, i would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this issue.

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: All too often, separation of church and state and the intent of the founders is misunderstood. The clause was never intended to keep religion out of government. It was intended to keep government out of religion. This is quite clear if you look at the history of the revolution and the period leading up to it.

A large part of the battle for the hearts and minds of the colonists was actually fought from the pulpit. If you go back and read many of the surviving sermons from that time, you will find that a large number of practicing clergy were calling for reform of the English government early on, and that this evolved into a call for violent overthrow of it as time passed. This had a tremendous impact on the final form of the US government.

Just look at our money. Most people don’t realize that our national motto is “In God We Trust”. There have been numerous attempts to strike this from the motto, but the Supreme Court has stopped them all. The intent of the founders was clear.

Each session of Congress is opened with a prayer. People are sworn into office on the Bible. And most tellingly, the Declaration of Independence refers to our Creator.

Over 90% of Americans say that they believe in God. Yet, over the years, the courts and legislators have attacked any mention of religion in government under the guise of “separation of church and state”. And where has this left us as a nation? Are we better off?

Arguably, I would say “no, we are not better off”.

Most of the values that society holds dear actually come from religious documents. Just read the Ten Commandments and you will find the basis of most of the world’s laws. When that basis is rooted in something other than just the law, such as a system of beliefs, people tend to be better off for it. They not only follow the law, but they do it willingly and are less tempted to break it.

Additionally, religion gives people a system of values and teaches both sides of compassion; the ability to be good to others and at the same time enforce the law for the betterment of all. This is one of the primary problems faced by society today. People understand that if they break the law, they may go to jail, but they don’t seem to face the problem of breaking their own personal system of values. That’s because nobody is teaching values.

Keeping all of this in mind, this brings us to teaching creationism or evolution? Which is correct?

I personally have never seen the conflict between the two. If you believe in God, then you probably also believe that God created a system of scientific laws that govern our universe. But that is not really the subject here.

The question here is whether or not teachers should be talking about creationism at the same time they are teaching evolution? Well, Christian fundamentalists would say that they shouldn’t be teaching evolution at all. But atheists would say that creationism shouldn’t be taught. In an odd sort of way, the atheists have their own form of fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism in any form is both dangerous and displays ignorance. Ignoring creationism doesn’t make it go away. It only heightens the controversy. The same can be said of those who would deny evolution.

Unfortunately, what has happened is that any time someone in the country brings up creationism in a public school, someone else seems to rise up to file suit against the school system and the teacher involved. They claim that they should be protected from state sponsored religion and the site “separation of church and state”. And the courts have ignorantly agreed with them.

State sponsored religion would mean that the government told you that you had to belong to a certain church, or that the government furnished financial support to a particular religion. It does not mean that teachers shouldn’t be able to talk about what creationists believe and compare and contrast that to the theory of evolution.

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: I still don't see what the establishment clause has to do with whether or not ID, or creationism, or any of the other crackpot ideologies about the origin of the world, should be taught in schools _as science_. If it passes muster as science, then teach it, by all means. If it doesn't, put it somewhere else. Comparing evolution to creationism sounds like an interesting discussion, and might even belong in a science class, a _philosophy_ of science class. Putting them on equal footing as scientific theories? Well, that's basically called lying.

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